swing speed.

dose the pro v1x require a certain swing speed? What about the nxt tour?

Hi John,

Thank you for the post.

Titleist golf balls are not designed for certain swing speeds. We design all of our golf balls to meet the needs of many different types of golfers. When determining which golf ball is right for you, it is important to look at control, spin and feel into and around the greens. In the end, the best ball for you is the one that will help you shoot lower scores.

Hope this helps.

Bubba

I think the swing speed thing went away shortly after they stopped labeling golf balls with compression ratings.  I remember 100 compression balls being designed for fast swing speeds, 90 compression balls for medium swing speeds, and 80 compression balls for slower swing speeds... kind of like the shaft flex categories.  With the newer technologies in golf ball design, manufacturers have discovered that they can make a ball that compresses pretty much identically with any swing speed... i think anyway.  So, us golfers with slower swing speeds can now confidently use the same ball that the pros use with much, much great swing speeds.

Bubba, and all,

A lot of other manufacturers' golf ball advertising is built around balls being specifically designed with certain swing speeds in mind.  That doesn't make much sense to me, since even the other Bubba (with his 122 mph driver speed!) hits every other shot with a much lower swing speed.  That is, the ball has to work with every swing speed.  The only thing that does make sense to me is that different balls might be designed with different core responses to launch a bit differently and different dimple patterns in order to fly differently based on driver spin rates - and that could be swing-speed related as a secondary effect.  But optimizing the compression of the ball for specific driver swing speeds makes little sense.  Even in Titleist's published golf ball comparisons, there is only a little difference in the carry distances from one ball in their line-up to another for each driver club head speed. (I loved seeing the Titleist test center's 400 yard driving range designated to the robot just to be used for continuous testing of this stuff!)  Differences in distance between balls for a given club head speed is probably more related to launch angle and roll-out than to compression.  (And I can't imagine that all the other manufacturers don't have the same test information, regardless of the advertising they have created.)  Can I buy a ball that gives me 20 more yards off the tee?  Uh ... I doubt it.  If I could, would a wedge into a green stop where I wanted it?  (That's a rhetorical question - no need to answer.)

It seems fairly obvious that the amount of force applied to any object - and especially one with design features that affect performance, such as the number and size of dimples - would impact performance.  

Well then if swing speed is a thing of the past, then why have some OEM's offer balls based on swing speeds? Some of these balls may also have a different dimple pattern and or cover material for each specific swing speed range. 

I do believe you should use a ball that fits your game. Does that mean 'swing speed' matters? Maybe, maybe not. I think swing speed matters more with equipment.  

My ball is the NXT Tour - fits my game - love it. 

I've been playing golf a long time; started w/ balata balls right thru today's high tech balls.  My experience is that I can feel marked differences in what I call hard vs. soft golf balls.  By that, I mean the Pro V's feel significantly harder at contact than NXT's, especially the soft NXT.  My swing speed is in lower 90's and when I hit a Pro V, it feels very hard at impact, from driver through wedges.  NXT's feel softer--and better--at impact for me.  I notice this when putting, as well.  Pro V's are more like a rock at impact than NXT's.  My belief is that the Pro V ball is more for higher swing speed players than slower swing speed players.  

I don't have the "fastest" swing speed of all time.  However, I went through a full fitting at the TPI in Oceanside and was fitted into a ProV1x ball as opposed to a ProV1, so speed definitely didn't play a roll in it.  I consider myself a pretty big golf equipment nut, but even I was a little shocked with this development as I had shied away from the ProV1x for fear my swing speed wasn't "fast" enough for it.

John H,

Before the advent of layered ball designs - back when the balls were wound (rubber band) under a surliness cover --- the inside core had a different hardness --- that is why there were 80/90/100 compression.

but with layered ball designs -- the ball compresses more at higher swings speeds (more force on impact = more compression) --- so a higher swing speed effectively increases the amount of compression.

The difference in the Pro v1 vs Pro v1x is essentially only the outer cover (crown finish) --- the pro v1 is softer (more feel) - but also scuffs easier.  Higher swing speed players also tend to hit the ball higher - so the dimple design of the prov1x is meant to fly lower.

From a compression standpoint (driver) there would essentially be no difference between the v1 and v1x.

hope that helps....

fyi - I am a bit of a materials (nerd) guy

John The answer is no, I have a moderate swing speed and find the proV1x perfect for me. Reduced side spin with the driver and plenty of spin for the greens. Ian

I too, question whether or not the Pro V1x requires a greater swing speed than the ProV1.  Also, what is the significant difference between the Pro V1 and the NXT Tour besides the cost?

Lee

lksinger @ cox.net

I asked the swing speed question because both golfsmith and golf galaxy said with my 102 mph driver swing speed i needed to use the nxt tour instead of the pro v1x, they said the pro v1x is for speeds of 105 mph and up. i bought a sleeve of both, the nxt tour gives me more distance with driver and irons, but the pro v1x seems better around the green and with the putter.

I know that different swings produce different shots and trajectories. While my preferred ball and primary ball is the ProV1x, I do occasionally play the ProV1 – but mostly in the late season when it's colder.

Here's what I've noticed between the 2 balls:

The ProV1x has less spin, but for me it has a higher launch angle than the ProV1.
The higher launch is probably due to the dimple pattern and not the softness of the ball. However, while this ball features a higher launch, its overall trajectory is flatter and more boring, especially with the driver and fairway woods. A real bonus in the wind.

I'm a bit more accurate with the ProV1x as is has less side spin than the ProV1. 

Around the green i prefer the ProV1x.
I generate a lot of spin with the short irons and the ProV1x gives me just the right amount of backspin.

Regarding durability, I've noticed no difference between the two balls.

Now on the subject of ball choice and swing speed: my dad's swing speed doesn't come close to my swing speed but he too also plays the ProV1x. If we choose balls on swing speed alone, he'd probably be playing the ProV1 but that's not the best ball for his shot making. In his game, the ProV1x provides plenty of control on the greens and provides him with longer drives than the ProV1.

The only way to determine you best ball is the play with both with all sorts of shots.


John,

I'm going to offer you some overly-complex, possibly confusing insight and then bring it back to the recommendation that Bubba and other Titleist staff typically throw out when it comes to the ball-fitting topic.

Focusing solely on swing speed has it flaws especially when we bring in the use of launch monitors.  Don't get me wrong, launch monitors are highly beneficial.  But the monitors (Foresight GC2) used at Golfsmith typically do not include the capabilities/attachments required to adequately measure swing speed.  Instead, it uses a fixed smash factor (the ratio between ball speed and swing speed) of approximately 1.45 to estimate swing speed .  The easiest way to test this is to purposely hit a ball off of the toe/heel and then compare ball speed/swing speed.  Obviously your ball speed will reduce as compared to a center-hit, but your swing speed should not fall in exact proportion.  However, this will ultimately be the case.  

Staying with the fixed smash factor assumption, I'm guessing that your ball speed was approximately 148 mph based on a 102 mph swing speed.  If for example your smash factor was actually 1.41, then your swing speed would actually be 105 mph.  On the other hand, if you were in the ideal range of 1.48 to 1.50, then your swing speed would be around 100 mph.  

Swing speed is used by certain ball fitters/manufactures who want to shift focus towards compression because its the easiest to rationalize/understand.  While swing speed is a factor in compressing a golf ball, someone who swings 100 mph with a smash factor of 1.49 compresses the golf ball more effectively than someone with a swing speed of 110 and a smash factor of 1.40.  Swing speed in itself is not the only factor as it pertains to compression.

Unfortunately, it sounds like the advice you are receiving falls in line with how bstone markets its products even if it was made with good intentions.

Since there are obviously many more variants to selecting a golf ball other than swing speed, Titleist does not seem to place absolutes on selecting a golf ball.  This is why you will note Titleist recommending starting from the green and then working back to the tee (as most shots are saved by the green - not off the tee).

My recommendation to you would be to first determine if you want to play an economical line ball or a premium line ball.  If you do not mind the economic aspect to golf ball purcahses, test the ProV1 and ProV1x side by side starting from greenside and working back in 50 yard increments.  You could throw the NXT Tour in the mix to see what, if any, benefit you receive from the premium line balls .  Unfortunately, when it comes to the ball specifics, I cannot offer a lot of help.  I've bagged the ProV1 since the initial launch before moving to the ProV1x when it launched in 2003 with the exception of a year or so that I went back to the ProV1.

Its easy to over think many things in this game. When it comes to a golf ball, go find what feels right and what works for you.

Good Luck!

I've read references from about 2009 that used the 105 number. I personally can't distinguish any distance difference, and I normally am in the high 80's mph range. My best drive on level ground was 240 this year Can't see a white ball that far so I don't know how much was carry. Still my best drive ever (not counting long downhill par 5's) and it was a 1x. Not to say they aren't knowledgeable about golf equipment, but you can't prove by me that the 2013 ProV's requires a 105+ driver speed. They should be aware that Titleist doesn't recommend a speed change, so they should only use other vendors' recommendations with their balls and not generalize to all tour-grade balls. The NXT Tour may be the best ball for your game, but not because of your driver speed.