2 fairways or 3w plus hybrid

Last year my beautiful wife got me AP1's for my bday (yes she is awesome) and I love them so much that I am thinking about replacing my woods (Nike Dymo) with 910's when those go on sale shortly. The thing is that I don't know if that's the right thing to do.

When I got the irons, I switched the 3i with a hybrid, and was convinced by the store to get the 19 degree. At the time I was surprised because I thought the 21 degree, maybe 22 degree would be the 3i replacement. The guy at the store convinced me, and a TT rep later confirmed that the 19 degree was the right choice. BUT, now that I've played a whole season, I hit my 4i about 175, and the 19*h about 200 yards. My driver goes about 220 on a good day.

So.... what I am thinking is this: instead of getting a 3w and a 5w, and also because I hit my 19*h about as far as my current 5w, I would get a 3w and a 21*h to bridge the gap between the 19*h and my 4i. Is this crazy thinking? Am I not supposed to get a 3w and a 5w? 

I have 15,17,19* fairways, sometimes I use 15, and 19*, and sometimes I use just the 17*. Sometimes I replace the 19f with a 17h.

A 17* fairway would probably match nicely with a 19h.

I think a 21h or 3i should probably be in the bag.

Daniel R

Last year my beautiful wife got me AP1's for my bday (yes she is awesome) and I love them so much that I am thinking about replacing my woods (Nike Dymo) with 910's when those go on sale shortly. The thing is that I don't know if that's the right thing to do.

When I got the irons, I switched the 3i with a hybrid, and was convinced by the store to get the 19 degree. At the time I was surprised because I thought the 21 degree, maybe 22 degree would be the 3i replacement. The guy at the store convinced me, and a TT rep later confirmed that the 19 degree was the right choice. BUT, now that I've played a whole season, I hit my 4i about 175, and the 19*h about 200 yards. My driver goes about 220 on a good day.

So.... what I am thinking is this: instead of getting a 3w and a 5w, and also because I hit my 19*h about as far as my current 5w, I would get a 3w and a 21*h to bridge the gap between the 19*h and my 4i. Is this crazy thinking? Am I not supposed to get a 3w and a 5w? 

The 21 would be a much better choice for a 3 iron replacement.   Also think about practicing choke shots with the 19 hybrid (the rule of 10 yards for every half inch works).  What you are seeing is EXPECTED because the hybrid or fairway wood is going to get at least 10 yards more than the iron of equivalent loft.    Some can hit the fairway wood 5-10 yards farther than the hybrid.

Currently my setup is 910F 19*, 910H 21 and 27*, AP1 7-PW (I have the 7 iron set to 31* and the 8 iron set to 36*).  I have a 15 yard gap between clubs from the 5 wood thru 7 iron. 

I think what may be a more viable option if you intend on keeping the 19* H is to get a 3 wood and 24* hybrid.  The difference between a 19H and 21H is MAYBE 5-7 yards.   Theoretically you should get a gap of 15 yards between a 19H and 24H.

Other things to think about are a 17* fairway and 21* hybrid or 17 and 21 fairways.  One is that the 17 fairway is much easier to launch off the deck vs a 3 wood and there is little distance gap between the two.

That's odd, because I've always considered a 3h to be the same as a 3 iron at 21*.  Right now I have a 15, 19, and 21 in the bag.  I like this set up, but an considering switching the 15*  and 19* to a 17*.  Not final yet but may consider it.  Also I'm looking at getting a 24* to replace my 4 iron.  Still confused on the 19* hybrid equaling a 3 iron, never heard of that.

Generally, 18* is a 2H, 21* is a 3H and 24* is a 4H.  TM advertises their 3H at 18* and their 4H at 21*.   A Sumo SQ2 4H is 23* as is a G10 23*. 

Just like 7 woods......  most vendors nowadays advertise one at 21*.   Tight Lies and old persimmons were 24*.    I've seen 24*, 27* and 29* 9 woods.

I think the most important thing is that you have your loft gaps consistent in your set.  In the irons you typically see 4 degrees from 1 club to another.  There is no standard for a 3 hybrid from one company to another.  Just focus on the loft.   Same thing with fairway woods.

Then establish if you are more consistent with hybrids or fwy woods. 

My set looks like this.

9.5 Driver, 15 degreee 3W, 18 deg hybrid, 3I (21 deg) - PW (47 deg) 53 SW / 60 LW

My hybrid is typically a tee club on tight holes.  Maybe using it on 2nd shots on longer holes, provided the risk/reward factor.

But do remember that a 3H at 21 degrees is going to get probably 12-15% more than a traditional 3 iron at the same loft.  The head mass and additional length of the shaft do play a part in that.  

 

Wade

Originally I also thought it was just about the loft, which is why I thought that the 21*h would be the 3i replacement. However, both the guy at the store, as well as a Titleist demo day rep were adamant that the 19*h is the right replacement for the AP1 3i. They both stated that it's not just the loft but also the launch angle that plays a part. They both said that the hybrid launches higher, and are therefore not as long. It really sounded like they knew what they were talking about so I got the 19*, also because I had just demo'ed the AP1 6i at 175 yards on their monitor (which I now believe they may have calibrated to "flatter the customer" setting).

Having played them for about a year now though I find there is a very big gap between my 4i (175 yards) and the 19*h (200 yards), and when I hit it flush, the hybrid goes just as far as my Nike 5w. Heck I have like 3 or 4 clubs that go about 200 yards... I like the suggestion to grip down the 19* and learn to shorten that one. I think I'll get just the 3w and keep the old nike 5w to use from funky lies. If I don't get the hybrid I won't feel too bad replacing my relatively new TM driver and go all Titleist :)

Thanks everyone for your time, I appreciate it.

Daniel R

Originally I also thought it was just about the loft, which is why I thought that the 21*h would be the 3i replacement. However, both the guy at the store, as well as a Titleist demo day rep were adamant that the 19*h is the right replacement for the AP1 3i. They both stated that it's not just the loft but also the launch angle that plays a part. They both said that the hybrid launches higher, and are therefore not as long. It really sounded like they knew what they were talking about so I got the 19*, also because I had just demo'ed the AP1 6i at 175 yards on their monitor (which I now believe they may have calibrated to "flatter the customer" setting).

Having played them for about a year now though I find there is a very big gap between my 4i (175 yards) and the 19*h (200 yards), and when I hit it flush, the hybrid goes just as far as my Nike 5w. Heck I have like 3 or 4 clubs that go about 200 yards... I like the suggestion to grip down the 19* and learn to shorten that one. I think I'll get just the 3w and keep the old nike 5w to use from funky lies. If I don't get the hybrid I won't feel too bad replacing my relatively new TM driver and go all Titleist :)

Thanks everyone for your time, I appreciate it.

Dan -  before I got my 910F 19* and the 910Hs my Achilles heels were the distance between 185 and 160 yards and between 140-160 yards mainly because I couldn't hit the longer hybrids and performance with the 6 and 7 irons was spotty at best.  For 2011 and the early part of 2012, I navigated the golf course with a TM 13* driver - 7 wood, Sumo SQ2 5/26 and 7/34 hybrids, Eye 2 8-PW, 54-11 and 62-07 SM c-c Vokeys and managed to shoot between 85-88 on the 6100 yard courses and around +3 for 9 on the exec courses.  What I did for the 170 shots was choke down on the 7 wood.  For 150 I choked down on the 5H and for 135 I choked down on the 34H.  I carry 12 clubs now.  The way I have my AP1 irons spaced out: 7-31, 8-36,9-41, PW-46, Vokey 50-08 bent to 49, Vokey 54, Vokey 60-10 bent to 59.   

If one does a bit of research, he/she will find that a lot of amateurs struggle with hitting a 3 wood off the deck and people with slower swing speeds fare better with a lofted wood vs a long hybrid.  The greatest bunker player in history carries a 9 wood these days. 

I've seen articles where pros have recommended using driver - 4W- 7W as a long club setup with a 24 hybrid and then 5 iron thru lob wedge (this also allows for use of a gap wedge or x wedge).  They even recommend using the 27 hybrid in place of the 5 iron for some seniors and a lot of ladies.  My stepmother uses a 34 hybrid instead of a 7 iron; she is 78 and shoots in the mid 90s.

I carried 975F 16.5 and 20.5 fairways for 3 years.  No problem launching the 16.5 off the fairway. 

Honest opinion is that a 17-18 fairway is going to get a lot more use than a 15 fairway mainly because they are easier to launch and the distance MIGHT be 10 yards different.   A 910F 17* set .75 increase loft (D3, C3, D4 or C4 depending on how your lie angle is set) is PERFECT because it has a .5* closed face (promotes a small draw).  Also, for the average golfer to use a 13.5 fairway is a bit ludicrous, given that a lot struggle with a 15.

My suggestion to a few is to hit the 17-21 fairways alongside the 17-21 hybrids.  I've found that I actually hit a 21 fairway just as far as a 17 hybrid on a good hit.  The distance gap between my 19 fairway and 21 hybrid is 15 yards, as is the gap between the 21 and 27.  I've been pretty proficient with a 5 or 7 wood and a 5H for a long time - I'm just now getting to the point where I can hit a 21H OK (I have it set up so it is only 1/2" longer than my 27; 39" and 38.5" respectively, since those are proven lengths on my hybrids).  I also have my 19 fairway set up with a 41" shaft because that is what I hit best on a fairway wood.

I don't think I'm supposed to know, but my wife is getting me the 15* 910f for Christmas :))))

Lou, I've stopped trying to hit 3w off the deck years ago, it's off a tee only for me. I've resigned to the fact that my hybrid is the longest club I can hit off the short grass. I have a feeling that I'll hit the new club about as far as my TM supertri which means that I effectively have a 12 club bag too.

I think I am going to invest in some lessons next season and learn how to properly use them.

Daniel R

I don't think I'm supposed to know, but my wife is getting me the 15* 910f for Christmas :))))

Lou, I've stopped trying to hit 3w off the deck years ago, it's off a tee only for me. I've resigned to the fact that my hybrid is the longest club I can hit off the short grass. I have a feeling that I'll hit the new club about as far as my TM supertri which means that I effectively have a 12 club bag too.

I think I am going to invest in some lessons next season and learn how to properly use them.

The only 3 wood that I had been able to successfully hit off deck since 2006 was a 980F that I used in 2010.  The reason I got rid of it is that I had a TM 7 wood that I hit just as far.  I find that I can hit an 18-21 fairway off just about any lie and knock the daylights out of it.  I can hit a 21 hybrid somewhat satisfactorily but crush a 25-27 hybrid.    I can hit my 910F 19* right around 200 yards (generally a conservative swing is about 185-190 but if I get on it, over 200 yards).   

The key to hitting a fairway is that you want to sweep it as opposed to hitting down.  You want some spine tilt so you can launch it but still want to maintain a flat swing path.

This year is the first time I have carried a 21 hybrid (couldn't find one I could hit well and always carried an 18-21 fairway since 2006).  The way I have my 910H 21 set up is to play like a 25 hybrid (shaft length of 39 and lie angle of 60). 

 

I have a 910F 3W, and 910H 19*, 21* & 24* and AP2s 5-PW.  I don't typically have all three hybrids in the bag.  I agree with Lou regarding the 19* and 21* with regards to carry distance, although in my case, the 19* is a much hotter trajectory with considerable roll (depending upon conditions).  In fact, I'd be more apt to pull the 19*, as I've run into situations where I've rolled too far and into trouble.  The 21* on the other hand, is ideal for a 3-4 shots I face in a typical round at the home course.

With the intro of the 913F, I'm debating dropping the 19*H, and going with a 19*F, hoping for a little more carry, a higher flight and better control of the run out.  

george t

I have a 910F 3W, and 910H 19*, 21* & 24* and AP2s 5-PW.  I don't typically have all three hybrids in the bag.  I agree with Lou regarding the 19* and 21* with regards to carry distance, although in my case, the 19* is a much hotter trajectory with considerable roll (depending upon conditions).  In fact, I'd be more apt to pull the 19*, as I've run into situations where I've rolled too far and into trouble.  The 21* on the other hand, is ideal for a 3-4 shots I face in a typical round at the home course.

With the intro of the 913F, I'm debating dropping the 19*H, and going with a 19*F, hoping for a little more carry, a higher flight and better control of the run out.  

The 910F 19* and 910H 21* are pretty close to the perfect gap (15 yards).  Here's what is weird about my 19F - I get a higher ball flight on the D2 setting and it is easier to launch vs A2 off the deck; for sheer distance off the tee, the A2 setting is better but it isn't as easy to launch off the deck.  The first time out on the Oaks N South Course, I stuck the green on #2 (190 yards) with the B3 setting (also had the shaft length at 41.5" before and main reason I went to 41" because deck hits weren't clean).  The 910H 21 has a lower ball flight vs the 910F 19 for me (the hybrid is set on D3 with 39" shaft length).

 I carry a 910H 27* and it also has a 15 yard gap with the 21* - there was almost no difference in distance between it and the 24*.  I have an ability to crush the 27*.

I also have my AP1 7-PW spaced 5* apart (31 to 46*).  I have an AP1 6 iron set at 30 in the event I want to go to blades on the 7-PW because player irons are 2* weaker loft than AP1s.