Graphite shaft iron (Kuro Kage) - Torque ?

Mr Norman Heiberg had a good question on XP95 shaft, i have about the same concern on the standard graphite shaft offer for the new 714 AP1,the Kuro Kage 65 Low balance according too the Titleist web site.  Titleist lists the the TORQUE = 3.5 for flex A,R,S. The Mitsubishirayongolf.coms web site lists the torque=4.9 for flex R,S. Is Titleist using a modified version of the shaft? If not, why the difference? 

 Below information from the mitsubishi web site :

SHAFT

FLEX

LENGTH

WEIGHT

TIP OD

TIP //

BUTT OD

TORQUE

KICK PT.

NAME

GRADE

inches

grams

inches

inches

@10mm/inches

degrees

KURO KAGE™ Black Iron 50

L

42

53

0.370

5.5

0.600

5.0

MID

KURO KAGE™ Black Iron 50

A

42

53

0.370

5.5

0.590

5.2

MID

KURO KAGE™ Black Iron 60

L

42

57

0.370

5.5

0.590

5.1

MID

KURO KAGE™ Black Iron 60

A

42

60

0.370

5.5

0.590

5.0

MID

KURO KAGE™ Black Iron 60

R

42

63

0.370

5.5

0.590

4.9

MID

KURO KAGE™ Black Iron 60

S

42

66

0.370

5.5

0.600

4.9

MID

KURO KAGE™ Black Iron 70

A

42

73

0.370

5.5

0.600

3.5

MID

KURO KAGE™ Black Iron 70

R

42

75

0.370

5.5

0.600

3.5

MID

KURO KAGE™ Black Iron 70

S

42

75

0.370

5.5

0.600

3.5

MID

             

given the weight diffference, I would suspect that the ones that Titleist is using are a different shaft. It is not uncommon for a club manufacturer to have a slightly different shaft that the one that is on offer directly from the shaft manufacturer.

I am sure that either Cathy or Cameron will give you all of the details....

Mitsubishi designed the Kurokage 65 shaft with plans to launch it to the market in the near future.  Their primary performance goal was a lightweight stable, flighted iron shaft. This shaft blends High Density Prepreg, a smooth bend profile, lower balance point in a premium constant weight iron shaft.  The Kurokage 65 shaft has a lower torque and a lower balance point that allows us to build to a preferred swingweight for our players. 

 

 

Kathi, Some months back started researching all about the 714 AP2 heads and what shafts were available. Much as Benoit is doing. After figuring out that the kuro Gage shaft had good writeups and such. I went down to the GG in Westminster to hit these with the 714 head.. I was pretty convinced. Before and after my first 'sortta' Fitting. So we hit balls and such without so much as a thought. Ben the PGA Profesaional was doing a lesson so he was working that and my club fitting. All good it seems SO WE DECIDED TO ORDER THE 714 ap2 WITH kUROkAGE 65 SHAFTS 6i thru GW. Got them nov,8 . Then the Fun Begins!! The clubs were light! Way light. And not swing weighted, I couldn't feel the club head at all. I played 3 rounds with my Garmin along found I had Lost almost 2 Clubs on avg my irons.. NOT GOOD!!! So off we go to see Ben At GG to get this all sorted out. upon fitting me again with ap2 and AP1s with different shafts.. we think the AP2s should been fited with a XP 85 300R and not the KuroGage.(however he was the Golf Pro that fitted me before.) After we talked he spoke with Titleist then his MGR and back to me, I wound up Paying Titleist $25 a club to re shaft the 6 clubs. To Titleist credit they stepped up some. GG didn't want to know about it....."They are used" I get That. But here is my problem: I am now the proud owner 6 clubs, very fine set of steel clubs I love, that I paid $200 each for... that's $1200 plus taxes.. Im waiting for clubs to return..... Just doesn't feel right Benoit!!! This graphite thing is all about Feel! There is some internet info and True Temper has lot to say. I think the shafts wound up being to light because we Didn't specify swing weight. True Temper has some info on torque, as does Utube The KK shaft a good solid shaft You should test it. Which brings us to the Last!!! Get Fitted at the best facility you can get to and bring an open mind. It will allow you to get the best set of clubs for YOU Thanks DT

Hi Don,  Although Ben was not in today, I spoke with one of the managers at the Golf Galaxy store and she would like to extend the offer to be refit from start to finish by their master fitter.  You should be hearing from her shortly.

Please know that there will  be a difference in distance between an AP1 and an AP2 because there is a loft difference. 

Let us know how the new fitting turns out.

Cathi, Thanks! Wow... I will you know how the refit goes... Hopefully it will be something simple.. Cheers Don T

Very nice offer by Titleist too DonT, it show how Titleist is serious on the customer service. Proud to have 913 driver and woods, vokey SM4 wedges, cameron putter and pro V1.

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So Don a big thank you for your information on KK shaft, you saved me some $, but you send me to a mandatory fitting session.

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I was going to try the KK shaft, after looking as many, many shaft , with a nice balance of torque (low) and light weight, i figure that the KK was to try. The other graphite shaft i had a temptation, were not in the Titleist option, so for Bassara UL it was lot a $, and for the i80cw steelfiber more affordable but on spec not a big difference compare to KK. On the 2013 list, Titeist offer only i95 and i110 for steelfiber, maybe in 2014 they will extend the offer ?.

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I know fitting is important, but even as a 6hcp, my swing is not always the same, i can have a couple weeks playing +2,+3 and then out for a +10, +12 for a few rounds and back at +5,+6. Must be why gofl is golf. And very concern on what are avalaible on fitting session for iron shaft, if i want to know how is Bassara or SteelFiber not sure it will be in the fitter's bag. I know that for steel shaft it will be all there, but i figure if Boo Weekley can win a PGA tour with graphite shaft, and Matt Kuchar with steelfiber, it must be something going there. For woods-shaft is no-problem, it's all graphite,  i bought Tour AD-DI 6 (s) on driver and 3 wood(fd) and love it.

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So, i might be in Florida (close to Fort Lauderdale) next march 2014, Cathi can you give me a place where i might have the opportunity the try different IRON graphite shaft, and i understand that i can finish with a steel shaft, but i really want to make sure that graphite have been tested.

Our recommendation would be to go see John Webster or one of his fitters at the Breakers in Palm Beach, FL.  Give them a call prior to going down and let him know what you are looking for so he can have the shafts available for your fitting.  They have two facilities, Breakers Ocean and Breakers West and you can call either one of them to make an appointment  .561.655.6611

Cathi Thanks so much to you at Titleist and the crew at Golf Galaxy. I had the refit done and the results were, I think, spectacular! Mike, their master fitter, spent a lot of time with me doing checks, measurements, grip setups, swing speed, old swing weights ETC. We tried and worked with many different shaft and head combos on the swing monitor until we came up with the best setup. I was pretty surprised. (in a pleasant way) You were quite correct in the differences in distance between the AP1 and AP2. The Ap1's were longer and launched higher. They also had a very solid feel to them with steel shafts. We went with them. Since a little more distance/control was the hope in the beginning, I think we got it right. My thanks again to Debbie, Mike and Ben an GG. You gained a loyal customer. Winter has arrived here, so the AP1's will need to sit in my office until spring more than likely. But, a new bag and a wedge or two to go in it will surely be in the works before then. Thanks again to everyone! Don T.

Hello Don,

Very nice to see Titleist giving an elite fitting session to a customer.

Thanks for giving your feedback, so after trying an AP2 with KK shaft, you end up after a professonnal fitting session too an AP1 with steel shaft.

Can you specfy what shaft and flex (xp95 reg, DG R300, ...)

Have you try other graphite shaft or steelfiber before ending with steel ?

Hi Don,  I'm glad to hear that the new fitting went well and you feel confident that these are the irons to help you shoot your best scores ever!.  Thank you for the update and play well!

Hello Benoit, Alas winter has found me and the temps are falling below 10deg tonight. Spring is coming.. :-) At any rate, I wound up with xp95 reg with some custom bends in the heads. In the end, that is what: A, I easily hit the highest/furthest. B, I was the most consistent with and C, felt (to me) best at impact. Did not have steel fiber to test at the time. The best I can say is to get fitted.. and to bring an open mind. I was as surprised as anyone as to my results.. I really think it has a lot to do with the new AP1 heads and the new TT XP95 shafts. (I had AP1 710s and these are miles ahead!) Have a great time in Florida! Hit them well! Don T

I'll be 69 next week, and I've been taking lessons at Golftec, located in Golf Smith at Easton Town Center in Columbus, Ohio this winter.   Again today, I spent a bit of time hitting a few different clubs with the Golf Smith flight monitor after my lesson, and was absolutely blown away by the increase in distance I got with a 6 iron fitted with the Kurokage 65g R-flex shaft in an AP1 head!    Easily 20 yards more carry distance (on the fly) than the same AP2 head with the XP95 R300 steel shaft. 

Here is some data from the Foresight Range Analysis monitor:

AP1 head with XP95 S300 shaft:  Carry Distance: 148 to 156 yards;  Ball Speed 101 to 109 MPH; Launch Angle: 17.5 to 17.9*

AP2 head with XP95 R300 shaft:  Carry Distance: 151 to 161 yards;  Ball Speed 108 to 112 MPH; Launch Angle 16.2 to 17.5*

AP2 head with Kurokage 65g R-Flex shaft:  Carry Distance 182 to 186 yds; Ball Speed 113 to 117 MPH; Launch Angle 17.3 to 20*

Club Head speed is in the range of 75 to 80MPH.   

Can't wait to get officially fitted this spring when I can get outside to see what  really happens.   But the difference in carry distance for me with this shaft is amazing!

Jerry

Cathi, can you convey any feedback between this Kurokage 65 shaft or the GD AD 65i shaft?  I am interested in hearing from anyone playing either shaft in the new AP1.  Please let me know the technical specs between the two shaft such as torque and launch  and any other differences that will help me decide which to go with.  I have hit them both, but only with the demos in the titeist fitting bag.

Thanks,

John

John -

I tried the AP1 714 with the KK 65 in Reg.  I currently have the GD in A-Flex on the 712 and have improved ball striking since I was fitted.  With that flex with the 714, there was enough improvement for me to plan on checking out the KK and XP-95.  Not sure if it was just the shaft flex the entire 714 package, but it was definitely an improvement.  Without a fitting outdoors, I wouldn't be able to determine what suits me better for sure.