Higher loft but lower ball flight? Why?

Started by : Marzi S |

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Marzi S


Hello. Need some advice from the experts. 

I am currently using 10.5degree driver regular flex torque 5.8 @ 44 gram. My ball flight is straight but ballooning so i'm not getting any roll. My average drive is about 200 to 220yards. I close the club face (increase the loft) and sure enough i'm getting more distance (makes sense since higher loft for slow ss equates more distance right?) but why is the ball flight is lower now? Should the ball flight is higher ( more carry?)

I want to go for fitting but the nearest is 4 hrs drive one way. If i want to bring my ball flight down would 9.5degree helps? I am thinking of getting 910D2 with regular shaft so that i can get more distance. I need to have idea so that i can ask right questions later.

If it helps, my tempo is smooth and my 6 irons distance is app. 155yards. Thanks guys !

Skylar T


What I am thinking your saying is that when you close the face it increases the loft.  That is not true because a closed club face will decrease the loft and promote more of a draw. 

Lou G


Marzi S

Hello. Need some advice from the experts. 

I am currently using 10.5degree driver regular flex torque 5.8 @ 44 gram. My ball flight is straight but ballooning so i'm not getting any roll. My average drive is about 200 to 220yards. I close the club face (increase the loft) and sure enough i'm getting more distance (makes sense since higher loft for slow ss equates more distance right?) but why is the ball flight is lower now? Should the ball flight is higher ( more carry?)

I want to go for fitting but the nearest is 4 hrs drive one way. If i want to bring my ball flight down would 9.5degree helps? I am thinking of getting 910D2 with regular shaft so that i can get more distance. I need to have idea so that i can ask right questions later.

If it helps, my tempo is smooth and my 6 irons distance is app. 155yards. Thanks guys !

A closed clubface gets a lower ball flight.   I used to use a 10.5* neutral driver and it had a ballooning ball flight that went about 220 max on a dead straight shot and a power fade was 240 .  I changed to a 13* draw driver 2 years ago  - it lowered my ball flight and I have hit some drives in excess of 260 yards with it. 

I experience the same thing with my 910F 19* fairway and 910H 27* hybrid.  I get a more penetrating flight with a slight draw on the A3 setting (max loft 1.5* closed face).  The A2 setting gives a higher ball flight with a slight fade.

 

Marzi S


Jim

Thank you for the explanation. To be very frank, I am confused with all the shaft options available. I do agree though that I have to reduce my.spin and I am hoping the fitter can help me later.

Skylar - when I say close the club face, I turn the club face to the left as if I will hit a major hook with it. I thought it will increase the loft no?

Lou - glad to hear that you are seeing improvement when you go for higher loft. I am perfectly.okay with 12degree if I need to. I assume you are using regular shaft too? Our ss seems about the same based on the previous distance.

Marzi S


Jim

Thank you for the explanation. To be honest, i am confused with all the options available nowadays. Agree that my spins needs to be reduced.

Skylar, when i say close, it is like i am turning the clubface counterclockwise (RH golfer) as if i am going to hit a severe hook with it. It is not increasing the loft no?

Lou - glad to hear you found what works best for you. I am okay to use 12degree driver if needed. Not a big deal with me - game would be a lot more fun if i can squeeze 10 - 15 yards of roll.

Lou G


My driver is M flex (TM "a" flex) but it is also 1.25" shorter than stock.   My 19F is also a flex but is 1" shorter than stock.   To amplify what Jim said about "one manufacturer's regular is another's stiff".... my dad gave me a Cobra X speed driver and two 975F fairways (16.5 and 20.5) as a big Five Zero present in 2007; the shafts were ProForce ATR stiff but felt like regular because of the soft tip.   I've also tried A flex on bone stock length TM and Cobra and they felt very whippy.   The reason my driver and fairway don't feel whippy is because they may have stiffened slightly by shortening the shafts 1"+

One more thing on my driver - I tee the ball pretty low (about 1 1/2" or midway between 1st and 2nd knuckle). If I tee it as high as I see some of the golfers out there, I would be hitting moon balls that have the trajectory of a 7 iron.  I also have a rather vertical swing but that is what works for me.

In regards to opening and closing the clubface......    take a 10.5 neutral driver and close the clubface: it lowers the loft and decreases spin; hence why a draw shot flies lower and rolls more.   If you open the clubface with the same club, it increases loft and spin so you get a higher ball flight.

Just to avoid confusion......    the Surefit does increase or decrease loft but the reason that the higher loft actually gets a lower ball flight is because the spin is decreased with closed face.  

 Everything from the 9 wood to the PW is regular flex.  My swing speed is 82-85 mph and I peak at 90.  I've always played with a less stiff flex on the woods vs the irons (I had regular on the woods and stiff on the irons before).

James S


Marzi
Yes, the whole shaft and loft thing can be confusing and that is why I suggest a professional club fit. If you can find a fitting site with a launch monitor and fitting cart you will be able to see and understand far easier than trying to figure it out on your own. Also, many of the responses you get from blogs or tweets are not fully correct, but yet again subjective to that person's opinion from what they do. Quite honestly what you do and your specs are just that "yours". Three key  parts for game improvement....
1) good fundamentals for your setup and swing
2) properly fitted equipment
3) course mgt
Most major manufactures have quality equipment . The key is decide on one you like and get fit. My preference is Titleist, but you can go through a similar process with any.  

Jim Sanborn, PGA professional
Colorado Section

On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:53 AM, "Marzi S" <bounce-marzis1@acushnetgolf.com> wrote:

Team Titleist
Marzi S replied to Re: Higher loft but lower ball flight? Why? in Club Fitting.

Jim

Thank you for the explanation. To be honest, i am confused with all the options available nowadays. Agree that my spins needs to be reduced.

Skylar, when i say close, it is like i am turning the clubface counterclockwise (RH golfer) as if i am going to hit a severe hook with it. It is not increasing the loft no?

Lou - glad to hear you found what works best for you. I am okay to use 12degree driver if needed. Not a big deal with me - game would be a lot more fun if i can squeeze 10 - 15 yards of roll.

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Christopher K


When adjusting the SureFit hosel, closing the face does in fact increase the loft, as counter-intuitive as it sounds.

Lou G


Christopher K

When adjusting the SureFit hosel, closing the face does in fact increase the loft, as counter-intuitive as it sounds.

I think it is the opposite - increasing the loft closes the clubface.

Christopher K


Lou G

Christopher K

When adjusting the SureFit hosel, closing the face does in fact increase the loft, as counter-intuitive as it sounds.

I think it is the opposite - increasing the loft closes the clubface.

i thought the same thing, but have read otherwise in numerous postings.  Maybe Cathi, Mike or Cameron can clarify for us.

Christopher K


My apologies Lou.  I misread your response.  You're correct.

Cathi, Titleist Club Concierge


Lou G

Christopher K

When adjusting the SureFit hosel, closing the face does in fact increase the loft, as counter-intuitive as it sounds.

I think it is the opposite - increasing the loft closes the clubface.


 
When using the Surefit hosel, raising the loft will effectively close the face and decreasing the loft will effectively open the face.

Mark F


Okay all of you T/T people, you have really confused me on this subject.  I have a 910F at 17 degrees.  I tend to have a low ball flight due to a steep downswing so I took the 910 up to the maximum of 18.5 degrees to get some height.  I noticed that the ball while still lower than I'd like also picked up a hook. So I adjusted it again to the B-4 setting in order to straighten out the hook.  Here's my question.  Assuming that the 910F has the Surefit hosel to begin with, the B-4 setting on my performance matrix says that I should have more height as well as more fade. So, if as Cathi says,  raising the loft will close the face (thus promoting a draw/hook) how can it be both, being more fade at B-4 and yet closing the face and promoting a draw/hook?  Thanks.

Mark F

Lou G


 

The technical golf wizards will tell one that an open clubface generates more spin and a higher ball flight and a closed clubface generates less spin and lower ball flight.    Draw shots have a lower trajectory with a lot of roll and fade shots are high with very little roll. 

 

Mark F


I understand that open faces generate a higher ball flight and that a closed face generates a lower ball flight.  These then result in fades and draws respectively.  What I'm confused about is how a higher loft closes the club face.  Because as I said before, I have set my 910F at the highest loft and most fade setting, B-4, but yet according to y'all the high loft should create a draw due to the closing of the face as the loft goes up.  I do hit a draw with the club so what you say must be true, but then what setting do I use to get a higher flying shot with no draw or even a little fade?  Thanks.

Mark F

steve b


OK, here's the correct info everybody is leaving out -- a closed face produces more loft and and open face hits the ball lower ONLY IF the face is squared up at impact. And most players dont do that. They are wanting an open or closed club face to affect the curve, not the loft.  If you want to hit it higher add loft, lower traj then decrease loft....  

steve ball
PGA Master Proffessional.... 

Cathi, Titleist Club Concierge


Marzi S

Hello. Need some advice from the experts. 

I am currently using 10.5degree driver regular flex torque 5.8 @ 44 gram. My ball flight is straight but ballooning so i'm not getting any roll. My average drive is about 200 to 220yards. I close the club face (increase the loft) and sure enough i'm getting more distance (makes sense since higher loft for slow ss equates more distance right?) but why is the ball flight is lower now? Should the ball flight is higher ( more carry?)

I want to go for fitting but the nearest is 4 hrs drive one way. If i want to bring my ball flight down would 9.5degree helps? I am thinking of getting 910D2 with regular shaft so that i can get more distance. I need to have idea so that i can ask right questions later.

If it helps, my tempo is smooth and my 6 irons distance is app. 155yards. Thanks guys !

Hi Marzi,  If you close the clubface and hold that clubface closed at impact you will not increase the loft.  The only way that closing the face angle will increase loft is if you square that clubface at impact.   When you square the head, you will increase the loft and if nothing else changes, same path and angle of approach, the backspin will increase with a corresponding increase in launch angle. 
 
If you want to bring your ball flight down, yes, a 9.5° will help lower the ball flight.  It will also help lower the spin as it sounds like you may have too much spin (ballooning shots). 
Here 's a couple of things about spin.  A right to left shot will have less spin than a left to right shot (as a RH).  Lower lofts will have less spin. Hitting the ball low on the face will generate more spin than hitting the ball at center.
Give us a call if you have any questions.  1-888-TITLEIST

Quintin H


Mark

The draw/fade settings on the chart are based on the lie angle. Decreasing the lie angle, from the correct lie angle, will cause a fade, because the toe will be down, it has nothing to do with the face being closed or open.

That is under the assumption that you don't change your setup based on how the club sits behind the ball........if you do change your setup then anything could happen.

Lou G


Mark F

I understand that open faces generate a higher ball flight and that a closed face generates a lower ball flight.  These then result in fades and draws respectively.  What I'm confused about is how a higher loft closes the club face.  Because as I said before, I have set my 910F at the highest loft and most fade setting, B-4, but yet according to y'all the high loft should create a draw due to the closing of the face as the loft goes up.  I do hit a draw with the club so what you say must be true, but then what setting do I use to get a higher flying shot with no draw or even a little fade?  Thanks.

Mark F

The lie angle has some effect also (mainly because of an improper swing).   Let's say one hits a perfectly straight shot using the C3 setting (.75 increase loft, .5* closed and .75* more upright lie angle).    If you go change the setting to D4 (changes the lie angle by 1.5*) and you don't change your stance, the toe of the club points down a little bit and forces the ball to fade or slice because it forces the clubface to open more and also you have a steeper swing.  When you go to D3, the toe points up more and that forces the clubface to close more and induces a hook.   If you compensate for the flat lie on D4 by using a flatter swing, you'll end up hooking it or pulling it.  If you set up to the ball with the clubhead lying properly on D3, you'll find yourself choking down on the club to hit it properly.   

Try B1 or C1 because they have .5* open and 1.5* open clubfaces.  It sounds like your lie angle settings are too upright, the club is too long and/or you have a flat swing (caused by standing too far from the ball).  

 

 

 

 

For me, I keep the lie angle at optimum

Mark F


Everyone,

Thanks for all of the info. It seems a bit daunting but maybe I'm just going to keep adjusting the settings until I get the consistent flight that I'm looking for.  Fairways and greens to all.

Mark F

Quintin H


Marzi

If you have a Titleist adjustable club, then increasing loft does close the face.

But with a non-adjustable club, closing the face does not increase loft, it does decrease loft.

If you have any other brand of adjustable club, I don't know if loft adjustment closes/opens the face, I have not seen any other manufacturer claim their club does.