Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Lou G — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:00:29 GMT

[quote user="JOHN C"]

"Given this, they recommended for irons that I did not need to go on a monitor and the fitting was done by standing behind me and watching me hit 3-4 balls before the fitter would change the shaft and I would hit 3-4 again"

How do they come up with your swing speed and figure out what shaft you need? By the guy behind you watching 3-4 balls and calculating in his head? I would go back and make them do it right.

[/quote]

This is why I expounded so much in my last post. One can take an 8 iron with X flex and one with regular flex and both will have a total distance within 5 yards but the former will carry about 15 yards less. The launch monitor will show the difference along with the shot pattern. Personally, I want an 8 iron shot that is going to stop on a dime and not roll 15 yards.

I agree. I don't think the fitting was done right.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

JOHN C — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 00:28:08 GMT

How do they come up with your swing speed and figure out what shaft you need? By the guy behind you watching 3-4 balls and calculating in his head? I would go back and make them do it right.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Lou G — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 19:20:35 GMT

[quote user="Christian H"]

It was a local pro shop that has been nationally recognized many times so I felt very comfortable going there. They do have 3 outdoor bays that open to the driving range for fittings and they are equipped with multiple monitor systems and they are a Titleist "Advanced Fitting System". Given this, they recommended for irons that I did not need to go on a monitor and the fitting was done by standing behind me and watching me hit 3-4 balls before the fitter would change the shaft and I would hit 3-4 again. I did hit a couple off a lie board with tape once they landed on a shaft they thought was appropriate. Based on the two hits off the lie board they suggested the standard lie.

I called Team Titleist this morning and they suggested I go get a fitting done on a launch monitor. The gentleman I spoke with seemed more concerned with the +1 inch instead of the increased weight and stiffness. I'll see if I can get an appointment on a monitor for sometime in the next week or so.

Thanks everyone for the assistance.

[/quote]

I could almost write a book on clubfitting experience.

I'll give you a story about a set of Eye 2 irons and one of DCI 981. The former had mixed shafts (the 6 and 7 irons had KT-M stiff, the 8 iron had DG X and the 9 and PW had ZZ Lite Stiff) and the weird thing was that I was getting 3 more yards out of the 8 iron on a consistent basis off the grass at the park vs the 7 and the gap between the 6 and 7 was 10 yards; also I had a gap of 15 yards between the 8 and 9 irons. The DCIs had DG R300 Sensicore. I took the DCI 8 iron and the Eye 2 7 and 8 irons to the Golf Mart on Pacific Hwy and hit them on a launch monitor. The 7 iron showed an expected normal distance of 150 yards, the DCI 8 iron showed an expected normal distance of 135 yd (with 6* higher launch angle) and the Eye 2 8 iron was 126 yd average and I was all over the place for distance and deflection. Also, at the park I was showing a 10 yard difference between Eye 2 and DCI 981 with the 6 and 7 irons. I played with the DCIs while having the Eye 2s reshafted to TT Lite XL - the main difference before reshaft of the latter was the DCIs had a much higher ball flight. When I got the Eye 2s back, I gained 10 yards on the 6 and 7 irons and the 8-PW stayed roughly the same for overall distance but had a much higher ball flight. I ended up staying with the Eye 2s until recently (also during the process I did a dynamic fitting and had them bent from Yellow Dot to Blue Dot, which resulted in a cleaner hit because the lie angles are .75 deg flatter for the latter). The other lesson learned is the only way to adjust Eye 2s is to send them to the manufacturer because the Mitchell machines read 1.8* more upright vs what the manufacturer sets them with at the factory. Titleist irons lie angles, on the other hand, will match the Mitchell machines.

Even lie tape can literally lie. When I was having the DCIs adjusted, I brought in a Black Cat 9 iron that I knew hit dead straight. The lie tape read 1 tick mark toward the toe. I had the lie angles on the DCIs set such that the lie tape read 1 tick mark toward the toe - I hit them dead straight. On the other hand, all my AP1s hit dead straight and the lie tape is dead center on the tick marks.

Even the 1/2* spacing between clubs isn't necessarily always true. On my AP1s, I have the 8 iron spaced 1/2* from the 9 and PW and I hit them well. Originally I had the 7 iron 1/2* from the 8 iron and the 6 1/4* from the 7 (mainly because the lengths of the 6 and 7 differ by 1/4"). I had the 7 iron flattened by 1/2* because I tended to pull it (I also noticed that I hit it straighter and farther by choking 1/2"). I also had the 6 iron flattened such that it is now 1/2* flatter than the 7 because I had a hard time hitting it (this morning I noticed I was choking down by 3/4" with a good static stance). I gained 10 yards on the 7 iron and it hits straight and clean. 6 iron hit the bullseye at the shop today and it felt clean so I'll see what happens on the range.

In some so-called "fittings", often one hits a 6 or 7 iron to determine lie angle. Golfsmith does every single iron with lie tape if you do your set.

+1 inch is like being 1* too upright. Clean hits can make a difference of as much as 10-15 yards.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Christian H — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:27:20 GMT

Thanks everyone for the assistance.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Marc34 — Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:38:35 GMT

Christian-

Couple of things come to mind. First off I think you were improperly fitted.....big time. I dont know what store you bought these at but whoever fit you did a poor job but whats done is done.

I have found that one of the benefits to using Titleist clubs is that they do an excellent job at fitting their players whether you are a 20+ or scratch player. I would go on their website and find a FITTER not a store who just carries their line of clubs.(preferrably a Regional Certified Fitter) This makes a huge difference when getting fitted by one their own as opposed to some guy who works for a store that carries their line. I am in Illinois and the regional fitter here is Joe Burdess at the Glen Club-Glenview, IL. Probably one of the best fitters Titleist has to offer in my opinion as most from Titleist will tell you as well.

The fitting process with him compared to a fitting at a store is like night & day. Hitting outside with a Launch Monitor is the ONLY way to get truly fitted in my opinion. I dont care what anyone tells you. Everything from hand size to how tall you are to how you swing the club all plays a factor in the fitting process. I am sure Titleist will steer you in the right direction but take it from a guy like yourself who has done both fittings. The fitting outside with a LM and certified (or at least reputable fitter from a course) is the only way to tell.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Lou G — Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:44:31 GMT

[quote user="Christian H"]

I was not on a launch monitor and the "fitting" was included in the cost of the clubs.

My current thought is to go back and to pay for the upgraded fitting on the launch monitor and have the clubs adjusted if needed. Also, from what I was reading, club head speed is one of the more important factors in determining flex. I also have read that a heavier weight shaft can/will slow down your swing speed. I do understand that the longer shafts have changed my swing. This is why I have been going to the range and working with them. I know it may take some time to adjust completely. But I am a little concerned that the shafts are heavier and stiffer than what I was swinging before. I am not sure if this concern is warranted, but it is my biggest concern at the moment.

There is another fitter near me but I don't know if the 90 day warranty I was told I have with custom fit clubs is a Titleist warranty or specific to that shop. But I think it might be worthwhile to have a true fitting done. Thoughts?

And the bottom line... I spend nearly $1000 to upgrade my clubs to a nice new set of Titleist AP1's that I hit no straighter (I've always hit my irons straight) and 10 yards shorter per club. This doesn't seem like a good investment in my golf game.

[/quote]

Do what Cathi said. Call her.

Too many people spend $1000+ on a new set of irons and get frustrated because their old set works better. They get shafts that are too stiff sometimes.

You still haven't mentioned what the "fitting" consisted of. Did you hit balls off a lie board and use impact tape on the clubface? Did you hit balls on a simulator?

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Cath D. — Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:46:45 GMT

[quote user="Christian H"]

I was not on a launch monitor and the "fitting" was included in the cost of the clubs.

[/quote]

Hi Christian, Can you give us a call at Team Titleist? 1-888-TITLEIST

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Rob H — Wed, 15 Aug 2012 18:14:27 GMT

My friend had the same problem when he switched to the AP series irons. He was also fitted. I bought a set of 670 irons (model year 2007) off of Ebay, standard loft and lie. I hit them far for some reason. I tried his irons, and I wasn't happy with the feel of them.

I get a much better feel from the blades.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Lou G — Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:53:26 GMT

[quote user="Quintin H"]

There's a couple things here, 1 your going from standard set up to shafts an inch longer, which will change your position and will change your swing.

Another thing, you weren't on a launch monitor, then you weren't fit.

I hope you didn't pay for a fitting because you didn't get one.

[/quote] I have a post floating but the loss of distance can be explained if you had regular standard length shafts before and are using stiff shafts 1" longer. I took two 9 irons same exact head back in 2008 and found a difference of 5 yards total distance between the two (with stiff being 5 yards less). If the shaft is too long you won't hit the ball cleanly and impact with the ground would slow down the clubhead.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Christian H — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 23:45:18 GMT

I was not on a launch monitor and the "fitting" was included in the cost of the clubs.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Lou G — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 22:54:38 GMT

Questions for Christian H:

1. What type of shafts did you have on your original clubs? If they were regular and you got stiff on your AP1s, that explains a possible loss of distance along with the loft difference between your old clubs and new.

2. You may have been hitting the ball cleaner with the stock length shafts and now that they are 1" longer, you may be taking bigger divots.

3. How were you able to tell that your swing speed warranted a stiff shaft?

4. What all did they do in the "fitting"? Height and wrist to floor distance only establish your basic lie angle and club length. You have to hit off a lie board with lie angle tape on the sole and impact tape on the face for a dynamic lie angle and length. For instance, the Ping charts say I am supposed to use Yellow Dot for a static fit but I had better performance with a Blue Dot in a dynamic fit.

Places like Golf Mart, Golfsmith and Golf Galaxy have a launch monitor to enable you to try various clubs. The launch monitor is a must, especially when buying used clubs.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Quintin H — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 19:37:31 GMT

There's a couple things here, 1 your going from standard set up to shafts an inch longer, which will change your position and will change your swing.

Another thing, you weren't on a launch monitor, then you weren't fit.

I hope you didn't pay for a fitting because you didn't get one.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Lou G — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:42:30 GMT

[quote user="Dale S"]

Hello,

I had a similar experience with recently changing from another manufacturer to AP2s. The difference was in the lofts because the AP2s were 2 degrees more lofted than the other irons. I am learning to take more club and letting the new ball flight and control speak for itself.

Just my experience.

[/quote]

I switched from Eye 2 to AP1 and I gained 10 yards. The loft of the Eye 2 9 iron is the same as the AP1 PW. Before I was using my Vokey 50-08 as a PW (set to 51). I also made a small change to my wedge setup - shortened the 50-08 to 35.25" and made the loft 49, and changed my SW to 54-14 and LW to 60-10 (bent to 59); it also simplified the setup (I previously had a 58-04 and 62-07).

I also switched my fairway setup from Superfast 5-18 to 910F 19 (set to D3). There was a loss of about 5 yards (mainly due to the loft) but I gained accuracy and a soft draw vs a ballooning fade.

Some of the other vendors have overly strong lofts on their GI irons. I was looking at some Snake Eyes Python game improvement heads (a friend wants to construct some irons) and the loft of the PW was 42*! If you look at the loft of a 1967 vintage Wilson X31 5 iron, it is 31* and the PW is 50*. An old school 5 wood was 21*.

Re: Lost Distance After Fit for AP1s

Dale S — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:17:19 GMT

Hello,

Just my experience.